Cover illustration for The East Village Other (1968)
The work of Robert Crumb has its challenges for critics and scholars. He’s been both a restless and prolific artist, and a fairly consistent one in terms of quality. He has rarely committed himself to large projects; his work is mostly short pieces. It’s also unusual for any of those efforts to stand out from one another. Conceptually, he works from impulse, which leads to him maintaining a largely even keel in terms of the strength of his ideas. (It’s all equally strong or equally shallow, depending on one’s general view.) Crumb maintains an even keel in terms of execution as well: the drawing is invariably first-rate, and he never strays outside a certain range with his approach to emphasis and pacing. However, for all that, there’s a fair amount of diversity to his material; one can’t say that if one has read one Crumb strip, one has read them all. Even pieces in the same thematic vein have enough differences to defy efforts to treat one as representative of the whole. A responsibility of critics and scholars, it seems to me, is to distill an artist’s oeuvre down to something more manageable for a prospective audience. Walt Whitman, for instance, published nearly 400 poems in his career compendium Leaves of Grass, but knowledgeable critics can generally limit the number of particularly worthwhile ones down to at most a dozen consensus choices. With Crumb, though, next to no one can agree on which strips to single out, and it’s rare for one to be especially committed to the efforts one picks over others. Designating what constitutes Crumb’s most representative work can create a quandary for anyone who tries.
As such, I certainly understand the inclination to say, as Jeet Heer does, that “the whole of Crumb should be seen as a single project.” If the choices are that difficult to make, then why make them? Isn’t it best to just say there are no short cuts to understanding Crumb’s work? If one wants to engage with his material, one must engage with all of it.
I understand, but I can’t agree. I think it’s an abrogation of critical responsibility. Besides giving new readers a starting point (and highlighting for others what they may have missed), a critic has an obligation to explain what an artist’s work is about and the contribution it makes. This demands highlighting specific efforts (as well as their most accomplished aspects) to make those arguments. Claiming that it’s all one project–and, implicitly, of equal significance—allows the critic to sidestep this duty. If one doesn’t make choices and argue for them, I’m not sure one can be said to be engaging with Crumb’s work very deeply at all. Breaking down his career into more manageable pieces is necessary.
When editing the results of the Best Comics Poll last year, I hit upon the idea of categorizing Crumb’s work by period. This is the strategy art historians use when dealing with figures such as Picasso, and I think it’s also applicable to Crumb. When it comes to getting a handle on Crumb’s career, this probably offers the best way to go about it. One can characterize the material in terms of the various periods—I believe the groupings are easier to agree on than the relative merit of individual pieces—and then highlight the efforts one feels best reflects Crumb’s work at the time in question. With the poll, I designated two of Crumb’s periods as the Counterculture Era and the Weirdo Era. I’d like to expand on that with a list of six distinct periods covering his entire career: Tyro, Early Counterculture, Later Counterculture, Post-Counterculture, Weirdo, and Illustration. The categories aren’t perfect; there’s certainly overlap between them, and I’m sure someone can probably find better names for them. But I think they sum up Crumb pretty well. The following are my thoughts on the periods and what one will find in them. I would have liked to have been specific about additional individual efforts, but this essay is intended as more of a starting point than a definitive discussion.
From Crumb’s Harlem series (1965)
The Tyro period begins with Crumb’s amateur strips and fanzines from his adolescence. It includes his career as an aspiring commercial artist, and ends in 1966. For the most part, what one sees here is Crumb developing his craft as a draftsman and cartoonist. The highlights include Crumb’s greeting-card work, the Harlem and Bulgaria illustrations he produced for Help! magazine, and the 1960s adventures of Fritz the Cat. (The Fritz stories weren’t published until 1968 and 1969, but Crumb drew them in 1964 and 1965.) If one has a set of Fantagraphics Books’ The Complete Crumb Comics handy, this is the material in the first three volumes. The highlights all appear in the third book.
The work of the Early Counterculture period is the material that earned Crumb his fame, and I firmly believe it is far and away his most important contribution. These are the comics from 1967 and 1968, and they include the strips in Zap Comix #0 and 1, the Cheap Thrills album cover for Big Brother and the Holding Company, and the various contributions to underground newspapers such as Yarrowstalks and The East Village Other. (These strips are featured in The Complete Crumb Comics Volumes 4 and 5, as well as in the Head Comix collection.) With this work, Crumb introduced the thinking of the Beats (and their Surrealist forebears) to comics. The work rejected the sanitized, conformist, and commercialized modes that defined the field. Instead, it embraced an improvisatory spirit, complete freedom of imagination, and a sardonic, gritty view of the surrounding world.
From Zap Comix #1 (1967)
Conceptually, the work also reflected–even anticipated–a major development in the world of fine art. The dominant mode of painting in the 1950s had been abstract expressionism, which had taken existentialist improvisation to its extreme end: content was gone; all that mattered was evoking impulse, feeling, and mood in stroke, line, and color. Pop Art, the movement that followed, was the opposite: it favored dissonance over direct emotion, and it embraced the totems of the commercial culture that abstract expressionists were rejecting through their move away from representationalist thinking. The late 1960s brought a synthesis: the imagery and styles of popular culture were imbued with the abstract expressionists’ existential intensity. The key figure in painting was Philip Guston, a former abstract expressionist who used cartoon Klansmen and Cyclopses to dramatize feelings of doubt, anxiety, and self-loathing. Crumb, whose Early Counterculture work preceded the Guston paintings by a couple of years (Guston’s first cartoon paintings were done in 1969) was working in the same stylistic space: the imagery of commercial art–particularly that of the Depression era–was made to serve his every expressive impulse and narrative whim. The Early Counterculture work not only defined Crumb as a major figure in the world of comics; it’s earned him a spot in the history of 20th century visual art as well.
The Later Counterculture period, which encompasses 1969 through 1976 (Volumes 5 through 11 of The Complete Crumb Comics), may very well feature Crumb’s most controversial work. Jeet Heer, for one, has identified this as the period when Crumb became Crumb. As Heer notes, Crumb came under the influence of S. Clay Wilson: “Wilson was the artist who unchained Crumb’s unconscious, who gave the final push for Crumb to shove aside his internal censor and be utterly honest…” Heer and others feel this work is when Crumb came into his own as an artist, but others, including myself, see it as when his work turned a nasty corner. Conceptually, it degenerated into a very ugly solipsism. It’s marked by a fascination with taboo: racism, violent misogyny, incest, sexualized children—all rendered from the mindset of a pornographer. A harsh—though intellectually shallow—anger towards society emerges as well. Crumb did some of his most popular work during this period—Home Grown, by some accounts, is his best-selling publication—but others may find the material boorish and fundamentally uninteresting.
Cover to American Splendor #4 (1979)
I have to say that the most impressive material from the Post-Counterculture period—published between 1976 and 1979 and featured in The Complete Crumb Comics, Volumes 12 and 13—are among my favorites of Crumb’s work. It was during this period that Harvey Pekar began publishing his memoir-comics series American Splendor. Crumb was one of the cartoonists Pekar enlisted to illustrate the stories, and serving another creator’s material got Crumb’s thinking out of the misanthropic box in which it had become so distastefully trapped. Pekar’s scripts, though gritty, didn’t reflect the same kinds of attitudes. The material was humane, it valued naturalism, and it relied on quiet ironies for its effects. The demands of illustrating it seemed to awaken something in Crumb. He developed an impressive command of dramatic nuance while working on the stories. I’m not alone in thinking these collaborations are among the best comic-book comics of the pre-graphic-novel era.
“A Short History of America” (1979; expanded 1988)
The American Splendor comics aren’t even the best work Crumb did during this time. That honor goes to 1979’s “A Short History of America,” a 12-panel strip (expanded to 15 panels in 1988) that was first published in the CoEvolution Quarterly. At the time, Crumb had been doing some environmentally themed editorial cartoons for the publication, but this piece certainly ranks all of them. It focuses on a single expanse of land from decades past, and, in each succeeding panel, shows how that land evolved with the times up to the present day. It’s poetic; Crumb defines and redefines the image so that the changes to it become the piece’s content. And for once, Crumb is understated with his social critique, and the dispassionate tone makes the point—namely the corruptions of the land brought about by technological development—all the more powerful. It’s a devastatingly effective piece of work.
However, as strong as the best of the material from the Post-Counterculture period is, a good deal of it is among the worst of Crumb’s career. Apart from the work with Pekar and the CoEvolutionioary Quarterly, Crumb was more acidly misanthropic than ever. As R. Fiore wrote in 1988, “As the ‘70s wore on Crumb wore down. Crumb’s stories got to be like a continuing saga entitled Four Pages of Bitching.” Fiore also notes that things got to the point where he gave on entirely on Crumb’s work for a time. He’s not kidding about the distastefulness; the material is extremely repetitive and tiresome.
Many think that the work from the Weirdo period, from 1980 to 1993 (and largely collected in Volumes 14 through 17 of The Complete Crumb Comics) constitutes Crumb’s best work. If one is of the opinion that the Late Counterculture work is better than that from the Early Counterculture period, I can understand how one comes by that judgment. However, it’s not one I share. Crumb is still stuck in the same box. The major difference is that the dramatic skills he developed while working with Pekar allow the material to breathe a bit more. Also, his CoEvolutionary Quarterly work sparked a greater interest in rendering technique, and the art gains a superficial gravitas. But conceptually, it’s not much different than the bulk of the material he produced during the 1970s. The efforts at satire are shrill and shallow, and often devolve into rants. He tries his hand at Pekar-style verité pieces, but these tend to be tiresomely self-pitying on the one hand, or outright obnoxious on the other. (The nadir of the latter is probably “Memories Are Made of This,” in which he recounts his date-rape of an acquaintance.) Again, the highlights come when Crumb has to engage with another creator and get out of his own head. His collaborations with wife Aline Kominsky-Crumb have a pleasant breeziness, and he does well with a few of the adaptation pieces (such as of Boswell or Kraft-Ebbing). Crumb fans will certainly find the period of interest. One can easily see his development from what came before, as well as the seeds for what comes next.
From the Vues de Sauve portfolio (1991)
After the Weirdo period, Crumb entered what I call the Illustration period, which is where he is now. He doesn’t appear terribly interested in producing comics anymore; his efforts for the past two decades have been largely given over to producing single-image illustrations. It’s a logical progression from his work in the 1980s. As noted, he developed a greater interest in rendering technique, and his most striking efforts during that time are probably the intensively cross-hatched cover drawings he produced for Weirdo magazine. When one looks at his best work from the Illustration period, namely the two Art & Beauty issues, or the Vues de Sauve portfolio pieces, one sees an artist who just wants to enjoy his ability to make handsome pictures. Introducing Kafka and The Book of Genesis, the two major comics projects, seem in retrospect efforts to find a halfway point between comics and illustration, but the stale dramatizations in the latter demonstrate that comics no longer much engage Crumb’s interest. If one approaches Genesis as a collection of single-image illustrations of the Biblical verses, it seems a more successful effort. I’m starting to view the project as a coda to his career; it’s certainly more that than the magnum opus it was hyped as. Illustration may be the place Crumb has chosen to retire.
In closing, this is one comics critic’s analysis and judgments of Crumb’s career. I hope it’s of more interest than a pronouncement that his work is a single big project and one should just read all of it. Breaking his work down into distinct periods does, I think, help one to get a better handle on Crumb, no matter what one’s opinion of this or that individual effort. I certainly don’t think this essay is the last word. With Crumb, no essay ever is.








47 Comments
No accounting of Crumb’s career is complete without mention of his sketchbooks. For me his sketchbook series is his strongest work by far. Without a doubt his most freewheeling and mind-blowing work, and yes more valuable than his comics. I think that’s where his real strength lies. There’s a sampling of this in Kitchen Sink’s “Artistic Comics.”
“and a fairly consistent one in terms of quality.”
More or less. But probably less. Like you basically state, his weakest comics period was the seventies. Crumb readily admits that he was too wimpy to say no to all the requests to participate in other people’s anthologies. He was also being exploited by various hangers-ons earlier in the decade, resulting in a huge tax bill that took him years to climb out of. His work definetly suffered because of this. Most of the ecologically-themed work from those years was especially weak.
His work with Harvey Pekar is ok, but it’s not that ambitious. The charms are modest. As far as stories go, I’d say my two favorites of Crumb are the very last “Mode O’Day” story and a short story from 1980 called “Bop it Out.” The former story came about after Zwigoff challenged him to improve his writing for a screenplay submission. What came out is his sharpest piece of comics writing. The final story is a freewheeling four-page short of pure randomness. It has that anything-goes feel of the late sixties without the lamentable sexual and racial hangups. And his attention without doubt was fully on the page.
“As such, I certainly understand the inclination to say, as Jeet Heer does, that ‘the whole of Crumb should be seen as a single project.’…I understand, but I can’t agree. I think it’s an abrogation of critical responsibility. ”
YES! Thank you Robert! Although the narrative you tell around Crumb’s work is a little depressing (that he peaked early, and became increasingly indulgent from there,) and I’d be interested in examining it on my own. But see– this piece made me compelled to actually read Crumb start to finish, which something I haven’t felt before.
I find comic critics’ insistance on reading entire careers as single works to be distressing, even when artist only explores only one story-world or project. This conversation has been dancing around HU, especially throughout the Jaime roundtable. I think what bothers me most is that this is an argument that can be made for any creator, in any medium, if you truly want to ‘understand the work.’ For an industry somewhat aversive to criticism, its ironic that comics insists on such an imposing academic approach with its greats.
It feels like the ‘read-all’ proponents are hiding something– a weird insecurity that these are only great works when you approach them biographically, anthropologically, sequentially. But can’t you make anything seem elucidating and relevant, if you read it in terms of its history? Its a replacement of technical interest with historical interest. My worst nightmare, underscored by the Jaime roundtable, is that this is appropriate. Maybe Locas is mostly interesting as a community, a phenomenon, a career. And maybe Crumb is too– the narrative you’ve provided here has made me a lot more compelled by his work than I was before. Which then feels like, as an industry, we make knowingly cynical choices for “Greatest Comic.”
But I think I’m just echoing things that have been said before, and very recently…
Thanks Robert, for bringing Crumb into this conversation.
And by technical brilliance, I don’t mean artistic virtuosity.
“Although the narrative you tell around Crumb’s work is a little depressing (that he peaked early, and became increasingly indulgent from there,)”
Maybe I should let Robert do the talking, but I think he’s actually saying the opposite. Crumb has published so much with so many peaks and valleys that it’s not easily rounded up into a coherent narrative.
“For an industry somewhat aversive to criticism, its ironic that comics insists on such an imposing academic approach with its greats.”
I don’t know that it’s exactly an academic approach, though? There are obviously parallels, but I feel like there’s often, or at least sometimes, in academic approaches a sense that you can vary contexts in some ways. That is, reading all of Crumb wouldn’t be the only legitimate academic project — you could compare Genesis specifically to other biblical illustration projects, or look at his 60s period in relation to the counterculture, or what have you.
The insistence on the entire body of work as the starting point for criticism seems like a fan community issue? I think it may be especially pertinent for Crumb and Jaime because of the (differently) sprawling nature of their work. I don’t think anyone’s going to say, “well you have to read all of Charles Schulz to really understand him.” They might say, “well, if you didn’t like that, you should try his 60s comics,” or some such, but his achievement is just more consistent and more atomizable.
Thinking about it…part of what Robert’s saying is that the impulse to require total knowledge is in part a result of the *lack* of scholarly work, right? There hasn’t been a strong effort to rank or evaluate different parts of the corpus, which means your left with fan communities which are, almost by definition, enthusiastic about the whole thing (which isn’t always bad by any means.)
“Thinking about it…part of what Robert’s saying is that the impulse to require total knowledge is in part a result of the *lack* of scholarly work, right? There hasn’t been a strong effort to rank or evaluate different parts of the corpus, which means your left with fan communities which are, almost by definition, enthusiastic about the whole thing (which isn’t always bad by any means.)”
Noah: True true, should have thought harder about what I meant to say.
I agree with this interpretation. I think I’m emotionally upset by how this indiscrimination is re-cast as the impossibility of discrimination: an educated, critical judgment that to read the work correctly, you have to take the artist’s full career into account… which is an argument that can be applied to anything.
But this is just what Robert is talking about, already.
My use of the word academic was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction… I think what I was meaning to say was that readers are encouraged to be Crumb “scholars,” Jaime “scholars,” Sim “scholars,” but only in the sense that readers are expected to have a comprehensive knowledge of a career before making any judging the work. I didn’t mean to say that I think this is the only breed of legitimate academic project.
With Jaime it makes more sense, since basically, it is all one narrative with all of the same characters in the same story-world. With Crumb, you can get the “read it all” feel by simply reading a good anthology (the Coffee-Table Art Book or the Crumb Handbook or something). If you do that, you can get the feel of the career trajectory without reading everything. I mean, unlike Jaime’s work, it’s not one long sustained narrative, so it seems silly to me to suggest that “reading it all” is the only way to go about it.
Jaime’s work is also way shorter and self-contained. If you really wanted to “read it all,” you could do it in a couple of weeks (and still sleep, have a life, etc.)…With Crumb it’s a sprawling mess, much of which has little to do with one another. Trippy satirical Mr. Natural strips don’t have much in common with the Kafka biography. You can see links since it’s the same artist’s hand, but they weren’t meant to be considered together. With Jaime, you’re looking at characters who develop over time…and whose changes are chronicled in the comics themselves. Crumb’s characters (other than maybe himself) don’t really work like that….
To me, Crumb’s work is interesting as a psychological study…but I don’t get all that excited about it aesthetically (not that you can really completely separate these things).
With Jaime there’s less pages to read, of course. But jumping in the middle of any given story would probably bewilder most readers. With Crumb one can jump in at any time, no back story needed.
Thanks for all the great comments! I’ll try to respond later today.
Kailyn–
I think “completist” is a better term than “scholar” in these circumstances. I agree with Noah that the insistence on a completist perspective is pretty much a fan community thing. I’ve almost never encountered it among critics in other fields.
It’s pretty common fanboy tendency to use one’s greater knowledge of a subject to lord it over other people. I’m not sure the completism proponents are hiding anything so much as demanding deference to their more extensive knowledge. A lot of times it isn’t even valuable knowledge so much as a command of trivia.
A lot of completism is also about deifying the artist rather than engaging with the material. If one treats an artist’s career output as a single vast work of genius, then one doesn’t have to acknowledge that the artist is a human being who has good and bad days like everybody else. Confronting the fact that at least some of a given artist’s work is mediocre or bad tends to get in the way of viewing that artist as some sort of demi-god.
I think the best solution is to stick to talking about what makes a specific piece interesting or not.
Steven–
We all have our preferences. As for Crumb being a peak-and-valley artist, that is pretty much my view. Some of his work is inspired, some of it is very good, and a lot of it is mediocre or bad. But I also think there is justification for seeing it as being all on the same level. And if one is of that view, I think breaking it down into periods helps to get some perspective on what it’s about. That’s one of my points, as inchoately as the above essay may have expressed it.
Noah–
I don’t think the lack of scholarship is the problem. I’m not even sure the comics field is ready for true scholarship yet. Most of what the field considers scholarship is just fetishizing what Frank Miller once rightly called a history of crap. What comics need is a healthy level of analytical evaluative criticism. By and large, I don’t think we have it with the major works and artists yet.
“I’d like to expand on that with a list of five distinct periods covering his entire career: Tyro, Early Counterculture, Later Counterculture, Post-Counterculture, Weirdo, and Illustration.”
That’s six, actually.
Wow, that’s a goof. Thanks for pointing it out. It’s fixed now.
The insistence on the entire body of work as the starting point for criticism seems like a fan community issue?
Not exclusively. Indeed any published academic project on Crumb would be expected to show awareness of his entire body of work, even though engaging the entire body of work in detailmight not be the goal of the project.
In other words, in order to make the jump from seminar paper or conference paper to published article or book, one would be expected to show awareness of the Crumb’s career as a whole, or as a process, which I think is just what Robert has done here. That’s not the same as saying that all of Crumb’s work is equally important; it’s just a matter of knowing the turf critically, even if your project involves engaging a single specific work of Crumb’s.
I agree that completism is not essential for all forms of criticism, but if you’re working in an academic context, where purposes and expectations may be different than in other kinds of critical engagement, you need to know the turf, even if you’re not at all interested in showing off your knowledge. Knowing the turf need not mean knowing every single thing the artist in question has ever done, but it does mean knowing the career in broad strokes and reading around in the oeuvre (and the criticism) so that you can get situated.
I’m not arguing, BTW, that this academic way of knowing is always and necessarily better than other forms of critical engagement. What I’m saying is that published scholarship, as opposed to evaluative criticism, legitimately demands a thorough historical grounding, a broad awareness. That’s not necessarily the case for aesthetic criticism.
This leads me to my next point:
I’m not even sure the comics field is ready for true scholarship yet. Most of what the field considers scholarship is just fetishizing what Frank Miller once rightly called a history of crap. What comics need is a healthy level of analytical evaluative criticism.
You’re collapsing scholarship into evaluative criticism in a way that considerably narrows what scholarship can be. Even if we were to grant for the sake of argument that comics’ history is largely a history of crap, we would still need, or more to the point could still learn and benefit from, historicizing that crap.
I’m with you when it comes to criticism. But with regard to the larger field of scholarship, over the years I’ve learned, or rather been forced to acknowledge by sheer weight of example, the value of studying even comics that I think don’t hold up well artistically.
Your call for evaluative criticism is one I sympathize with, provided you don’t then make the mistake of assuming that scholarship must align with your critical tastes.
On a more personal level, Robert, I find your periodization of Crumb a bit problematic, not only because it sets up Heer as a straw man (he’s really not asking for anything much different than you are, and IMO you’re beating him with a stick pointlessly), but also because in my experience the “peaks and valleys” come in all periods. My favorite Crumb story is “Whiteman Meets Bigfoot,” from the aforementioned Home Grown, but it comes in a period you dislike.
Also, it should be noted that even the periods (“valleys”) in Crumb that you dislike have been extraordinarily generative in terms of their influence on later comics and art. The Late Counterculture period, as you call it, indeed contains a great deal of ugly, button-pushing material, but it also contains much that is revelatory and that has proven inspiring to subsequent artists.
Also, I disagree with this opening comment:
Conceptually, he works from impulse, which leads to him maintaining a largely even keel in terms of the strength of his ideas. (It’s all equally strong or equally shallow, depending on one’s general view.)
Not so. Crumb has strong work and shallow work in all periods, as indeed your survey seems to suggest. The graph of Crumb is quite uneven. The fact that he works from impulse does not mean that, for example, the Mystic Funnies stuff is on par conceptually with the best of the Weirdo stuff. I think there’s a fair amount of Crumb work, scattered across the years, that is flat conceptually, and doesn’t reach for anything special. But there’s also other scattered work that aims high, and hits high.
I also disagree with the assumption, resurrected here in the Comments section, that Jaime Hernandez’ work cannot be excerpted and is therefore narrowly fannish. His work too has peaks and valleys, and, though knowledge of the whole cloth may add to the pleasure of the work, JH has done a great many masterful comics that are mesmerizing even when viewed solely as self-contained works.
In general, Robert, I believe your criticism would benefit from resisting the temptation to cast “fanboys” as straw targets. It’s ironic to see you damning the fannish insistence on completism when you yourself are seeking to assert a broad, across-the-board mastery of Crumb’s career. In terms of method, you aren’t doing anything Jeet Heer hasn’t called for–but I hasten to add that I think what you’re doing is interesting and worthwhile.
The history of comics is the history of crap because people insist on telling the same narrative about crappy comics again and again…
@Domingos:
1. The same crappy comics that have inspired crappy historiography can also inspire good historiography. The “same narrative” can become a different narrative if handled thoroughly and well, with attention to social history, ideology, context.
2. The obligations of the cultural historian are not the same as the critic’s.
3. Advocacy of better comics is not at war with responsible historiography about all comics.
To be fair to Robert, it was me who brought up fan communities!
Re the scholarship issue…if you were writing a book on Crumb you’d be expected to show knowledge of the breadth of his work…but if you were writing a paper about, say, comics adaptations of the bible, you really wouldn’t necessarily have to engage with, or really even to have read, a whole lot of Crumb outside of Genesis, I wouldn’t think.
There can be different kinds of turf, is I guess the point. The ground zero doesn’t have to be the whole work, and in some projects or for some purposes the person who has read the whole work isn’t necessarily more empowered to speak than someone who hasn’t.
@Noah: You’re right, not every project would require a deep familiarity with Crumb’s whole oeuvre. Your example of a project on comics adaptations of the Bible would be a case in point, though even there I would want and expect to see some awareness of Crumb’s reputation and career. At the very least, I’d expect the scholar to avoid misstatement and reductive characterizations, and to acknowledge, however briefly, that Crumb has been the subject of much criticism and debate.
In the case of an article on Biblical adaptations in comics, I’d expect a wide historical context, or at least some gesturing toward context so as to show awareness. As you say, that’s a different kind of turf than Crumb studies.
My bottom line: I want to believe that a scholar writing about Crumb is pretty well versed in Crumb, even when they’re pursuing a topic, such as Biblical adaptations, that is not Crumb-centric. That expectation doesn’t mean that every scholar who presumes to write anything about Crumb has to become a completist or fan, but it does mean they should do their homework. That’s an expectation that doesn’t always apply in evaluative criticism, but IMO it does, or ought to, in published scholarship.
…in some projects or for some purposes the person who has read the whole work isn’t necessarily more empowered to speak than someone who hasn’t.
Agreed. A familiarity with an entire body of work is no substitute for motive, critical insight, or a burning question. But if at some point the project extends to a book or book chapter about an artist, then the expectation of complete familiarity is fair, in my view.
Charles: What you wrote is true, but I see no logical connection between what you wrote and what I wrote answering to Robert (or was I answering to Frank Miller?).
Even though I usually try to disagree with Noah, here I have to agree that there’s plenty of scholarship…plenty of good scholarship that makes no attempt or pretense to “completitude” (to coin a word) in regard to a particular artist.
Charles’ opening paragraph in his last comment here says he would expect someone to acknowledge that Crumb has a big body of work…and that there’s a diversity of opinions on it. This is what I would call a simple “gesture” and good criticism and scholarship is full of that kind of a thing. Another good strategy is the “I’m not qualified to comment on this aspect of x or y”—or, the “I don’t have the space to discuss this fully here”—Which largely means, I know there’s stuff to discuss in this regard, but I don’t want to because I have a different axe to grind and I don’t really know wtf I’m talking about.
If someone is discussing “comics adaptations of the Bible,” in terms of how the adaptations warp, change, or inflect Biblical meeting, that person can discuss Crumb’s adaptation without delving into Crumb’s history of comics-making…especially if Crumb is just one in a series of examples…and not even the central one the critic is interested in.
I published a piece on “narrative frames” and talked at some length about Frankenstein and The 1001 Nights. I’m no expert in these particular texts (though I did do some reading around), but I made no pretense to “knowing” their critical history in its entirety—or having a complete command of Mary Shelley’s oeuvre, or whatever. None of that was really an impediment, since my point was more to focus on the formal elements of these works….and how they illustrated a more narratological/theoretical point.
My main concern was not to say anything in regard to those texts that was flat-out wrong…but as long as I was doing that, I certainly didn’t need some kind of complete command. The “research” for the piece ran primarily in different directions. One can’t do everything…so one researches the things that are relevant to the “burning question” at hand thoroughly…and roots around for some basic, surface-y info on other elements. To have a complete command of all relevant material for ANY piece of criticism would require “swallowing the world” (like Saleem Sinai in Midnight’s Children). It’s impossible. Part of the trick of doing decent scholarship is roping off the limits of the project…and those limits do not have to include exhaustive coverage of a single author.
Charles–
It wasn’t my intention to denigrate scholarship and other forms of academic criticism. I can’t speak for Kailyn, but what I took her to mean was the pseudo-scholarly journalistic criticism that Jeet Heer in particular is representative of.
Academic and journalistic criticism are written for different audiences. Academic writing generally assumes an audience that is already fairly knowledgeable about the subject at hand. Journalistic criticism should be written with a naïve audience in mind. The purpose is to argue why
something is or isn’t of interest to a person unfamiliar with it, or if the person is familiar with it, to help sort out the initial reading.
There’s a clubhouse aspect to the pseudo-scholarly stuff. For those already in the know, they can congratulate themselves on their erudition. Those who aren’t in the know can either defer to their “betters” or go the hell away. There’s a preoccupation with historical trivia and/or surface technique. A pseudo-scholar’s idea of a great critical observation is that Jaime Hernandez once copied Moebius’ approach to inking clouds. Good academic criticism doesn’t traffic in that kind of banality (or if it does, it maintains perspective about it). A good journalistic critic knows, at the very least, that sort of thing is much, much too esoteric to dwell on. It’s more likely to alienate a potential reader than anything else. If that’s all a work has to offer, then why bother?
With regard to the above essay, I’m not beating Jeet with a stick pointlessly. If you follow the link to the statement I quoted in the second paragraph, you’ll see he’s directly arguing against seeing Crumb’s work in terms of multiple periods. I’ve had this essay percolating in the back of my head ever since that exchange.
That said, I’m pretty firm in my conviction that this piece needed another draft or two before being posted. When you note, “In terms of method, you aren’t doing anything Jeet Heer hasn’t called for,” you’re picking up on some of the inchoateness in the writing that bothered me. If I was to do another draft, I probably would have started by presenting the completist view. I would have then noted my opposing view with discussions of the select material I personally champion. I would have then presented the period divisions as a middle ground between them. The organization above is lacking to a degree.
Robert, this is nonsense:
the pseudo-scholarly journalistic criticism that Jeet Heer in particular is representative of.
If you believe this is a fair characterization of Jeet Heer’s work, then you do not know the extent of his research, not only into matters of technique, but also into cultural, historical, and political context. Jeet Heer has garnered a reputation for scholarship based on his ability to unearth the social as well as the aesthetic contexts of past comics, and he knows what he’s doing. Historiography is his vocation. Nor does his journalistic work introducing larger audiences to comics history undercut the deep and important scholarly work he has done in a variety of other publishing contexts.
I know what I’m talking about, because I’ve been privy to some of Jeet Heer’s dissertation scholarship, I’ve seen how he comports himself at academic conferences, and I’ve had the benefit of being instructed privately by his editorial feedback. It’s not just minutiae that’s at stake in Heer’s work; it’s the ability to contextualize interestingly, responsibly, and, yes, critically.
Good academic criticism doesn’t traffic in that kind of banality (or if it does, it maintains perspective about it).
This is a cheap out. What do you mean by “maintaining perspective”? Do you mean making the kinds of judgments that Robert Stanley Martin would make? Your criteria are slipping, and what appears to be a strong personal animus is showing through.
Apparently (time to doff the kid gloves here), you see Heer as a gussied-up fanboy obsessed with historical minutiae, someone who occupies a no-man’s land between scholarship and criticism. But your characterizations stack the deck terribly. This is ad hominem knife-work disguised as critical sagacity.
I believe you should stop trying to tell other people how or whether they should care about historical minutiae, and should stop trying to define critical positions by loaded contrast with other peoples’ work that you don’t well understand.
If HU in general suffers from its need to separate out fanboyish enthusiasm from less embarrassing enthusiasms, your comments here really epitomize that tendency. It’s marring what might otherwise be productive and interesting work.
One final point:
There’s a clubhouse aspect to the pseudo-scholarly stuff.
Robert, there’s a clubhouse aspect to every specialized domain of knowledge, including what goes on in your blog posts and in HU generally. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you seem to believe that, to be valid, art and criticism must put aside most of those specialized appeals. This is a leitmotif in HU’s recent Jaime Hernandez discussion as well: the idea that JH’s work rewards readers who have read a lot of it somehow becomes a stick with which to beat JH, as if other artistic works cited here on HU are pellucid, crystal-clear, universally accessible, or, better yet, just not fannish. The axial idea here seems to be that comics must be rescued or sprung from their most devoted audience, or, if not, they must be condemned for not joining some imagined general conversation in the clouds. Again, nonsense.
It’s as if you’re saying that your kind of erudition counts, but others’ doesn’t. I don’t buy that.
As far as I’m concerned there’s only one comics historian worth his salt and his name is not Jeet Heer…
That said I must add that his research abilities are impressive. I also have an appreciation for Jean-Paul Gabillet’s work…
Apart from the above it’s a complete desert.
Um…maybe people could take a breath?
Mabye to start….
I admire Jeet’s scholarship and his knowledge, and I think he can have a lot of critical acumen. I do often disagree with him, and we’ve had some pretty nasty exchanges…but at the same time, I always value his comments when he bothers to appear here, and I’ve enjoyed and benefited from other writing of his as well. I agree with Robert that the particular claim in question (the idea that you have to read all of Crumb) seems misguided, though.
As far as your other points Charles…do you really think it’s crazy or out of bounds to talk about Jaime’s work in terms of fan communities? The way he’s structured his work ends up being so much about the relationship with fans and readers over time, and people react strongly to it in those terms (see the last tcj reaction to love bunglers — but not just that.) I don’t think that necessarily makes it bad…but it’s such an important part of the work, it seems crazy to me to suggest that it’s no different from any other work of art. Locas is really different in the way it positions its readers than is Peanuts, as just one example. And the ways in which it’s different seem to have a lot to do with the fan community that it comes out of and is aimed at. Some roundtable participants (Deb, Jenny, arguably Derik and Corey) saw that as a strength, others (like Robert and me) were more skeptical — but you seem to be denying that it’s a factor, and I don’t see that as very convincing.
About HU….I think saying that everything is a clubhouse is maybe a little too easy…and I think it’s too easy in part because it too glibly dismisses the history and context in which comics criticism has occurred, and in which it still occurs. Comics crit, comics fandom, and comic feel like a clubhouse not because they have a specific interest, or specific passions. They can feel like a clubhouse because they come out of a very strong fan culture based around an art form which has not managed either high art cred or popular interest; because they remain a specialized interest; and, not to put too fine a point on it, because they are extremely demographically circumscribed especially in terms of gender and age, but in other ways as well. And while manga has mitigated this in some ways, in others it has very strongly emphasized it.
The fact that comics came out of a subculture, and that it remains a subculture, isn’t only a bad thing (though Domingos may have my head for saying so.) Fan culture is passionate. It can be, in some respects, very welcoming — by, for example, letting someone like me without a PhD try his hand at an academic book. And it can break down some traditional categories and divides, which can make for exciting work and exciting criticism.
But. It can also tend to hagiography rather than criticism, It can be blind to its own prejudices, both aesthetic and otherwise. And it can be inward looking in ways that prevent other voices, and other perspectives, from being part of the conversation.
All of which is to say…I don’t think its a very effective or insightful response to the issues Robert is raising (or that Kailyn is raising) to just basically insist, “you’re another.” Robert’s talking about different approaches to criticism and thinking about or looking towards different audiences. I think you can argue with him in various ways, but saying “any approach is an approach” or “any audience is an audience” seems to avoid most of the interesting issues — or at least it seems to from my perspective.
Sigh. I’m leery of saying anything at this point but I want to offer a clarification. It’s true that I believe that the best way to read Crumb (for me at least) is to try and see his work as a single, cohesive project. But this doesn’t mean that I’m adverse to “seeing Crumb’s work in terms of multiple periods.” In my review of the early Crumb I describe the work as “callow” even though it suggestively foreshadows themes he would develop later. Like any prolific creator, Crumb has had his ups and downs, his successes and failures, his dead-ends and periods of renewal. So the type of periodization Robert Stanley Martin is doing here is quite useful and suggestive and perfectly compatible with seeing Crumb as a creator who has pursued a remarkably coherent career even as he’s done variegated work. (I would disagree with RSM on some value judgements — I rate the Weirdo work quite highly — and also on the fact that he ignores the sketchbooks, which are as important as the stories).
It’s true that as Charles Hatfield suggests, my interest in trying to see Crumb whole is shaped in part by academic practice — the critics I most admire (say Hugh Kenner writing about Beckett or Boyd on Nabokov) are the ones that try to view a whole career even as they pay attention to individual works. It’s true that if you wanted to write a critique of Crumb’s Genesis or one of his other books you don’t need to read the whole oeuvre. But I think Crumb’s working through of his obsessions in multiple stories over a long career is interesting enough that a reviewer who know his or her Crumb will have more to offer than a critic who approaches the work in isolation. As an example, Will Pritchard examined Crumb’s adaptation of Boswell’s London Journal which focused mainly on that one story but was clearly enriched by Pritchard’s knowledge of Crumb’s larger career. See Will Pritchard, “New Light on Crumb’s Boswell,” Eighteenth-Century Studies (Volume 42, Number 2, Winter 2009, page 289-307.
I suppose I prefer this way of seeing Crumb partially because I value his work so highly but I don’t think that’s the only reason. I also value Spiegelman and Ware but in their case I think its easier to imagine an isolated reading of Maus or Building Stories (even though a knowledge of the whole career is always a plus). But Crumb’s work hangs together in a different way, one that makes a holistic reading more compelling. I would add that even RSM periodization of Crumb amounts to a holistic reading, whether he’s aware of it or not.
Another point of clarification. To say that Crumb benefits from a holistic reading is not the same as saying that 1) all of Crumb’s work is good or 2) all of Crumb’s work is of the same quality. James Joyce’s Exiles is a fairly mediocre play but Hugh Kenner was able to use it to shed light on Ulysses. Crumb’s failures and fallow periods are similarly suggestive.
That all seems reasonable, Jeet. I guess the point I’d make (sort of seconding Eric) is simply that it’s very limiting to insist that the best or most fertile interpretations of Crumb (or of any creator) would have to come from the perspective of a Crumb expert (which is I think more or less where you come out.) Like I said, different people can have different projects, and placing Crumb in a different context might be very fruitful — even for Crumb scholars. Robert Alter’s review seems like a useful case in point. I doubt he’s necessarily extremely well-versed in Crumb’s oeuvre…but he had other knowledge to bring to the table.
Oh, and thanks for overcoming your leeriness! I’m glad you weighed in.
@Noah:
…do you really think it’s crazy or out of bounds to talk about Jaime’s work in terms of fan communities?
Absolutely not. Rather, I think it’s useful and even necessary to talk about Jaime’s work in terms of fan communities. That’s an aspect I believe ought to be explored at some length. Indeed I try to do just that in my essay in Jaime in English Language Notes from a few years back, which talks about markets, fandom, and serialization in addition to intrinsic formal and aesthetic features.
What I’m questioning is not the attention given to fan communities, but the implicit, and sometimes explicit, belittlement of work on the basis of how it may appeal to a fan community. In other words, I’m leery of the way in which the link to fan communities is pejoratized, which is something that Robert resorts to often, a case in point being his loaded comparison of Jaime’s work to that of Updike and Proust, which, predictably, he finds superior because it makes its demands differently.
Robert on 26th March 2012: “It’s sad that Hernandez, with all his talent, undercuts his work by catering to this proclivity [i.e., the fannish love of 'details and resonances that casual audiences either miss or don’t understand'] at a larger readership’s expense.” Here we see two now-familiar moves from Robert’s repertoire:
1. The kneejerk pejorative reference to fannishness.
2. The positing of a hypothetical “larger readership” that, according to Robert, could engage Proust on reasonable terms but not Jaime Hernandez, because Jaime likes to embed “Easter eggs” in his stories that, says Robert, reward fannishness–whereas the serious attention and even obsessive devotion required of the Proust reader is somehow different in kind.
The argument is tendentious enough to snap the head back and give you whiplash. Robert’s disdain for serial pleasures, his tone-deaf reading, and his martial insistence that comics escape fannishness all stand between him and a productive engagement with the comics. The arguments bespeak a debilitating anxiety about borders that occludes Robert’s insights and blunts his otherwise intelligent and promising writing.
So, it’s not the attention to fan communities that repels me. It’s the predictable way in which charges of fannishness are marshaled to underwrite dubious critical judgments.
Charles…isn’t it possible too that your enthusiasm for the comics, and your unwillingness to consider the possible downsides of fan engagement and fan communities, might cloud your critical judgment in some instances?
Comics crit — even academic comics crit, even TCJ which in some ways was self-consciously anti-fanzine — is just really based in fan communities and fan perspectives. Like I said, that’s by no means all to the bad…but it does mean that that’s the perspective you get. Folks like Robert and Domingos and Caro are coming from a somwewhat different place, which leads them to value different virtues and to reach for different kinds of comparisons and standards. I don’t think that makes them tone-deaf; just listening for different things. It does provoke a *lot* of resistance, though — which I presume has to do with comics’ fraught relationship with high-brow criticism and mainstream culture more generally.
“It’s very limiting to insist that the best or most fertile interpretations of Crumb (or of any creator) would have to come from the perspective of a Crumb expert (which is I think more or less where you come out.) Like I said, different people can have different projects, and placing Crumb in a different context might be very fruitful — even for Crumb scholars. Robert Alter’s review seems like a useful case in point.”
Alter’s review was very good but it was hampered by the fact that he was theoretically naive about the nature of comics. Alter’s review would have been even better if, like Will Pritchard writing about Crumb’s Boswell, he had thought a bit more about the nature of comics and read more widely in Crumb’s oeuvre. (I discuss the theoretical problems with Alter’s review at greater length in the roundtable in The Comics Journal #301).
The call for familiarity with Crumb’s work might be limiting if Crumb — like Updike or Proust — created a huge body of work that takes months or years to be familiar with. But in point of fact you can read all 17 volumes of the complete Crumb and the accompany 10 volumes of sketchbooks in about 2 weeks time while also holding down a full time job. The same is true of Jaime’s Locas: you can read all those comics in 2 weeks and also be gainfully employed. So I remain puzzled by the idea that a familiarity with Crumb’s work or Jaime’s work is an onerous hurdle designed to keep out non-experts. It doesn’t take much time or effort to be a Crumb expert or a Jaime expert! And it’s also fun to do.
“It doesn’t take much time or effort to be a Crumb expert or a Jaime expert! And it’s also fun to do.”
I think the second bit there is sort of the point. It’s not much effort if you think it’s fun. Reading Crumb and to a lesser extent Jaime really isn’t fun for me…or for others, I’m sure.
I remember your objections to the Alter review. I don’t necessarily share them…but I’d point out that, as Eric said, no one can do everything. Alter’s spent a lot of time learning about Biblical scholarship. That meant he had a lot of knowledge and insight to bring to Crumb’s work from that perspective. If he wasn’t as up on comics scholarship as you’d like — well, nobody can read and do everything, you know? It’s silly to use that as a way to exclude people from the conversation who have real things to offer.
Even if you don’t find Crumb or Jaime fun to read (and I pity you if that is the case) it’s still not a huge time commitment to familiarize yourself with their work. Two weeks work isn’t onerous.
“If he wasn’t as up on comics scholarship as you’d like — well, nobody can read and do everything, you know? It’s silly to use that as a way to exclude people from the conversation who have real things to offer.” When Robert Alter writes about a novelist like Philip Roth or a poet like Charles Reznikoff or a critic like Irving Howe he generally displays a familiarity with a large chunk of that writer’s work, and often seems to have the entire oeuvre at his fingertips. The fact that he didn’t extend to Crumb the same courtesy he applies to novelists, poets, and critics says something about the relative lack of seriousness and intellectual engagement in Alter’s essay on comics. And I didn’t say that Alter needs to read any comics criticism (you and Robert Stanley Martin are really gifted at imputing ideas on people that they don’t hold). What I said was that Alter’s review would have been better if he had thought more deeply about the nature of comics and familiarized himself with Crumb’s work, the way Will Pritchard did in his essay on Crumb’s Boswell adaptation. What’s wrong with asking critics to immerse themselves in the creators they write about? It takes time and effort to create a work of art, so it should take time and effort to write criticism. Two weeks of spare time reading isn’t really much to ask for a critical essay.
As much as I enjoy reading Crumb and Jamie, I think financial concerns have to be brought into play. Not everyone has the money to dedicate to all those books. This is more true with Crumb, where it’s going to cost you hundreds of dollars to get all of the collected editions and sketchbooks and one offs. Jamie is somewhat easier since there is less to buy, but it’s still an investment. I’d love to own more work by both artists, but even working in a bookstore where I get a discount doesn’t mean I’m going to easily do so.
Comics crit — even academic comics crit, even TCJ which in some ways was self-consciously anti-fanzine — is just really based in fan communities and fan perspectives.
Noah, with respect, I don’t require schooling on what academic comics crit “is.” I’ve walked that walk, and continue to walk it. And guess what? To walk that walk well requires considerably more than taking fan perspectives. Robert, when responding to my Alternative Comics, made the mistake–and I’m emphatic on that point, it was a mistake–of assuming that the book was written toward a fan perspective. It wasn’t, as any rhetorically sensitive reading of the text would show. The rhetorical positioning and intellectual scaffolding of such a project requires much more than surrendering to the unexamined comforts of a fan perspective. Frankly, I’m incredulous that someone would presume to school me in that area. Robert read Alternative Comics this way because the book did not match his sense of priorities.–but his reading, frankly, was based on a shadow-puppet understanding of academic work that he felt obliged to box with.
It does provoke a *lot* of resistance, though…
Of course it does. And resistance is sometimes a sign that you’re doing something right. But if it’s possible that my love of comics has “clouded” my judgment–and one must always concede that possibility–then it’s also possible, and in my view very likely, to that taking a contrarian stance can be equally mind-clouding. Dare I suggest that there is something self-congratulatory in your remarks about taking a “different” position? And that, possibly, just possibly, this self-flattery (?) occludes your judgment, or Robert’s?
“Comics’ fraught relationship with high-brow criticism and mainstream culture” has been my beat for a long time. That I take a different perspective from Robert might be regarded as a position I’ve earned, rather than a capitulation to the fan culture. You can probably see the steam rising from my ears as you read this, but, with apologies for the rhetorical heat, isn’t it just possible that I have a considered opinion on the matter that is at least as informed and intellectually independent as the HU writers?
Really, I think you should stop positioning fan culture as a straw target. It’s a lazy intellectual habit, and encourages the taking of unearned positions.
You don’t need to pity me! I get enjoyment from reading lots of things. And the world would be a really dull place if everyone liked the same thing.
“What’s wrong with asking critics to immerse themselves in the creators they write about?”
What’s wrong is that immersion isn’t always necessary for the goal of a piece. It also presupposes a particular attitude towards the work — that it’s worth immersing yourself in — that produces a limited range of criticism.
And this is just nonsense:
“Two weeks of spare time reading isn’t really much to ask for a critical essay.”"
Alter had a lifetime of reading that he brought to that essay. You’re not dinging him for laziness. You’re dinging him because he doesn’t have the exact background you want, and then conflating that with laziness. It’s just unnecessarily hegemonic.
I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be writing that does what you’re asking for. I’m just saying that condescending to people who don’t want to read much Crumb, and assuming that they have nothing to tell you about Crumb, is a way to end up talking to fans and no one else. So yes, approach Crumb in the way you’d like; read things by people who approach Crumb the way you like. But also consider the idea that people with different approaches and different kinds of knowledge might have something to teach you, even if they aren’t as interested or steeped in the subject in the same way as you are.
I don’t know…here’s a quick example. I’m doing research on the Marston/Peter Wonder Woman at the moment, and it’s quite clear that the vast majority of people who have commented on the subject in academia haven’t read the comics all that closely, and certainly haven’t read Marston’s academic or theoretical writing. Folks like Douglas Wolk and Brandon Wright have what I’d say is a pretty superficial understanding of the comics (Ben Saunders makes a very strong case for this in Do The Gods Wear Capes?)
That doesn’t mean that Wolk and Wright are worthless, though. On the contrary, I think their superficial response (basically, WW is stroke material) is important to engage with and think through. It’s worth noting that their engagement isn’t all that deep…but it’s also worth thinking about why the superficial engagement is what it is, and thinking about what that means for the work. They can teach me something, not despite the fact that they’re not all that well versed, but precisely because they aren’t.
@Robert Stanley Martin. “It’s sad that Hernandez, with all his talent, undercuts his work by catering to this proclivity [i.e., the fannish love of 'details and resonances that casual audiences either miss or don’t understand'] at a larger readership’s expense.” This is a point that came up in another posting (with the puzzling claim that Jaime makes greater demands on his readers than Proust).
About the demands on attention that Jaime makes on his readers, it might be worth recalling what Hugh Kenner wrote about Joyce in The Stoic Comedians (1962):
“For the reader of Ulysses holds a book in his hands, Homer envisaged no such possibility. Consider what it makes feasible. On page 488 we read, ‘Potato preservative against plague and pestilence, pray for us.’ Now just sixty pages earlier, if we were alter, we may have noted the phrase, “Poor mamma’s panacea,’ murmured by Bloom as he feels in his trouser pockets. And fully 372 pages before that, on the bottom line of page 56, we have Bloom feeling in his hip pocket for the latchkey and reflecting, “Potato I have.’ The serious reader’s copy of Ulysses acquires cross-references at three points; and Bloom’ potato, it is by now commonplace to remark, is but one trivial instance among hundreds of motifs treated very briefly at two or three widely separated points in the book, and not even intelligible until the recurrences have been collated. It is customary to note that Joyce makes very severe demands of his readers.”
Now it seems to me that the demands that Jaime makes on his readers are much less severe than those of Joyce in Ulysses (let alone Finnegans Wake). But what does unite Jaime and Joyce is that both can be read with different levels of intensity by different readers. You can be a relatively casual reader of Joyce and love the surface of his language and the humor of characters like Leopold Bloom. Or you can be a hard-core Joycean and trace all the motifs that Kenner mentions (with the aid of the hundreds of critical and exegetical books that Joyce has generated). In a like manner, you can read Locas in a casual way — enjoying the interplay between Maggie, Hopey, and Ray as well as the beautiful art — or you can dive in and do an in-depth reading that pays attention to all the secondary characters and background details. There’s more than one way to skin a cat or to enjoy a masterful narrative.
@Cole Schenley. Those financial concerns are a hurdle but not insurmountable. Libraries are carrying more and more comics and if you really wanted to read Crumb you can get those books through interlibrary loan. (Of course libraries are also suffering cutbacks, but I think it should be possible to borrow those books in most libraries via interlibrary loan).
Hey Charles. Sheesh…you keep escalating. I’m going to try not to though…not feeling trollish today.
I already said fannishness wasn’t all bad; there are a lot of good things about it. And I don’t think that’s the *only* thing happening in Alternative Comics, by any means. But I don’t think Robert was insane for suggesting that it was an important place you were coming from.
And…I’m not schooling you. I’m talking to you. If you don’t want people to talk to you, you should probably get of the thread. If you do want people to talk to you in this forum, though, you’re going to have to get used to the idea that your scholarship — which I certainly respect — isn’t going to give you a free pass on being questioned. We’re not your students, and you’re certainly not ours. So, you know, chill out.
HU isn’t always, or even mostly contrarian, incidentally. I think Matthias Wivel probably agrees with you on the comics canon in good part. The Jaime roundtable was more positive than negative by a lot. There wasn’t anything particularly contrarian about Ben’s (excellent) piece from the other day. I’m not even all that contrarian. I love Watchmen, which is hardly a contrarian stand. Love Charles Schulz too. Write about how wonderful they are not infrequently.
Still, I don’t think I’m always right, or that I have some uniquely unbiased and pure viewpoint — which is why I try to get other people’s perspectives, even on books I really like, or on issues I feel strongly about. The comments section is part of that, which is why I’m grateful for your participation.
“Alter had a lifetime of reading that he brought to that essay. You’re not dinging him for laziness.” Laziness is a relative thing. The lifetime of reading that he brought to his review was evident in Alter’s biblical discussions and formed the strongest part of his review. But his comments on comics were theoretically naive and his general sense of Crumb was superficial. Alter doesn’t allow himself to be so lax when he writes about prose fiction or poetry — then he does his homework on a creator’s body of work. If you have a low opinion of comics and Crumb, then Alter’s procedure in this case is acceptable. But I don’t think either comics or Crumb are deserve to be treated so thoughtlessly.
“You don’t need to pity me! I get enjoyment from reading lots of things.” Yes, you like mediocre, middle-brow comics and half-baked Lacanian theory — that’s also pitiable!
“That doesn’t mean that Wolk and Wright are worthless, though. On the contrary, I think their superficial response (basically, WW is stroke material) is important to engage with and think through. It’s worth noting that their engagement isn’t all that deep…but it’s also worth thinking about why the superficial engagement is what it is, and thinking about what that means for the work.”
For the sake of argument, let’s assume you are right that Wolk and Wright offer a superficial reading of Wonder Woman and that you can glean something from this reading. In effect, you can use Wolk and Wright as foils or strawmen (a favorite use you have for other people’s criticism) — that’s mildly useful but doesn’t add too much to the conversation. I’d rather see you engage with critics who approach these comics with the same depth that you do. There are several unpublished doctoral theses on Marston and Wonder Woman that I’d love to see you engage with rather than simply respond to superficial readers.
This is Bradford Wright, yes?
I had a long reply to all of this…but then thought better of it.
Charles, though…if you’re still out there, I wonder if you read my piece on the Hernandezes in the roundtable? I was quoting/citing you a little–so I was curious if you had any thoughts.
Ha! Did I get Wright’s name wrong? Too funny; the book’s sitting by my desk, but I was too lazy to unearth it from the mounds of other Marston-Peter related detritus.
Engaging with Wolk and Wright was quite useful actually; sparked a bunch of ideas. I’ve looked at a bunch of other things too of course; Ben’s essay in his book is extremely useful,and there are a number of other folks who have written interesting things about the run. And still reading….
Speaking of which, could you email me about the doctoral theses you’re thinking of? That sounds quite useful, actually, and I haven’t run across any of them yet in my research.
You forgot to mention the man’s first name, Noah. I must write something about how Wright is intellectually dishonest at some point in his book. It will be a very small post though. I’ll do it in my blog.
I’m sure that no one cares at this point, but the comics historian I say above is the only one worth his salt is David Kunzle. Everyone here knows that, right?
Noah: Charles is right: academic criticism isn’t fannish. They may choose mainly trash to talk about, but that’s because they come from a cultural studies approach (I still didn’t read Charles’ take on Kirby; I’m somewhat skeptical, I must say). Journalistic criticism is almost 100% fannish though.
“The axial idea here seems to be that comics must be rescued or sprung from their most devoted audience,”
Yes! Sounds good to me.
Ditto! Hear, hear!
Domingos, I was just about to play your game and guess Kunzle…but now I see that you gave away the answer…
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Robert Stanley Martin says:
…A pseudo-scholar’s idea of a great critical observation is that Jaime Hernandez once copied Moebius’ approach to inking clouds [ http://comicscomicsmag.com/2010/12/hignite-on-jaime-hernandez.html ]. Good academic criticism doesn’t traffic in that kind of banality (or if it does, it maintains perspective about it). A good journalistic critic knows, at the very least, that sort of thing is much, much too esoteric to dwell on. It’s more likely to alienate a potential reader than anything else. If that’s all a work has to offer, then why bother?..
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Tch! Let us look at the section in question. Jeet writes:
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[Todd] Hignite is very good on Jaime’s debt to artists like Lucey, Ditko, and Moebius. To pick one example of many, here’s what Hignite says about Jaime’s first Locas story, “Mechan-X”: “the Moebius-like hatching in the clouds throughout ‘Mechan-X’.” That’s very nicely observed. It’s impossible to see the clouds in this story and not think of Moebius (who also inflects the hovering scooter Maggie rides on as well as the bird’s eye view perspective in some of the panels).
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For Jeet to say that was “That’s very nicely observed” is, um, hardly the same thing as calling it a “great critical observation.” (And I’m sure Hignite was hardly trumpeting that his noting that detail showed his brilliant acumen.)
As for “journalistic critics” (uh, isn’t that a fancy name for reviewers?) supposedly knowing “that sort of thing is much, much too esoteric to dwell on,” well, that piece did not appear in some mainstream publication, but in ComicsComics,, where knowledge or info that would be hopelessly esoteric for Joe and Jane Doe is taken for granted.
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Robert Stanley Martin says:
…A pseudo-scholar’s idea of a great critical observation is that Jaime Hernandez once copied Moebius’ approach to inking clouds..It’s more likely to alienate a potential reader than anything else. If that’s all a work has to offer, then why bother?..
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The thing is, Jeet Heer’s commentary on Hignite’s monograph made it abundantly clear that’s not all it had to offer. It…
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…covers, among other things, Jaime’s family background, the influence of classic commercial comics on his art, his interactions with punk music and lowrider culture, the context of the direct market, and the evolution of Jaime’s art and storytelling…
Hignite is very good on Jaime’s debt to artists like Lucey, Ditko, and Moebius….This sort of attention to Jaime’s visual ancestors isn’t just an example of source-hunting, it also informs us of Jaime’s larger project, which is to use as raw material the vernacular culture that surrounded him as a young man (not just comics but also wrestling, television, lowrider culture and punk music)…
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http://comicscomicsmag.com/2010/12/hignite-on-jaime-hernandez.html
If one is going to find fault with someone else or their approach, how about jabbing them for flaws they’re actually guilty of?
Fine Crumb essay, by the way…