Comments for The Hooded Utilitarian

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Jones, one of the Jones boys

Jones, one of the Jones boys — Mon, 21 May 2012 08:01:03 +0000

The wiki summary of War For the Oaks makes it sound like a 70s concept album:

“[...] Eddi soon finds herself in a struggle for survival against the Unseelie Court, all while trying to put a new rock band together. [...] The novel climaxes in a rock concert playoff between Eddi and the Queen of Air and Darkness, which decides the fate of both faerie courts, as well as the fate of her loved one”

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Aaron White

Aaron White — Mon, 21 May 2012 05:13:36 +0000

I dunno the history of urban fantasy as a genre/marketing category, but it is my understanding that War For the Oaks certainly popularized, if not started, the whole thing. I couldn’t finish it (I thought it would have been better if the two hot boys ignored her and the forth team member, an ugly dwarf, fell for her instead) but for people who want Mary Sue fantasy, it’s probably an ideal book, with enough with and craft to make it a swell ride.

Here’s a fake trailer Emma Bull’s husband directed:
http://www.myspace.com/video/sarah-alyse/war-for-the-oaks-trailer/312815

Enjoy!

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Noah Berlatsky

Noah Berlatsky — Mon, 21 May 2012 04:45:05 +0000

That’s the book that started the urban fantasy genre, isn’t it? Or am I confusing it with something else?

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Aaron White

Aaron White — Mon, 21 May 2012 04:43:01 +0000

Speaking of one girl-two boy triangles… Decades before Twilight there was a fantasy novel called War For the Oaks by Emma Bull, starring Mary Sue and the two hunky elven boys who desire her. It remains a touchstone for a fair number of readers who discovered it at a receptive age. I don’t really have an on-point point, but I suspect it’s an HU subject waiting to happen.

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Noah Berlatsky

Noah Berlatsky — Mon, 21 May 2012 03:31:32 +0000

I think the Claremont X-men are pretty interesting in this regard. Definitely elements of Fanny…but also some effort to actually appeal to female readers with Kitty Pryde, who had a lot of space devoted to her and was clearly meant as a point of identification for teenage girls. But then too as you say there’s Wolverine, who is very much Moby…

I think Red Hood was supposed to sort of be trying for sexploitation sleaze, but it ends up still obsessed with the boring frat boy protagonists first and foremost.

Comment on Hideously Inexpressible by James

James — Mon, 21 May 2012 03:19:21 +0000

Mike, I mean that simply using gay characters and dealing with diversity is not in and of itself any sort of a guarantee of quality and I can’t imagine why you think it is. I’ll grant that it comes down to taste but I have to say I rarely see horror work in any medium these days that I think is well done. Stephen King ain’t it and never was and yes he’s absurdly conservative. In my mind horror hinges on what is not shown, in what can only be imagined by the reader or viewer. Most horror films that get made have no subtlety whatsoever, or worse, are the miserable torture porn type which to my mind Barker was a harbinger of. I don’t actually know what he did for Disney, I just recall that some years ago they considered it a great coup that they put him under contract and I thought it was entirely appropriate since they are so apparently dedicated to low standards.

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Jones, one of the Jones boys

Jones, one of the Jones boys — Mon, 21 May 2012 03:18:18 +0000

Not sure I grasp the concepts fully — from the title I expected something about the electronic musician Moby and Lauryn Hill (yes, seriously). But Claremont’s X-Men would seem to count as “fanny”, at least the issues after Dave Cockrum’s second go-round. Claremont is positively obsessed with women and their often — verrrrrrrrrrry barely — sublimated romantic/sexual relationships with one another; the guys mostly seem like a distant afterthought. IIRC, though, few of the artists played along, other than maybe Alan Davis; if only Claremont had been able to work with Manara a few decades earlier.

Naturally the break-out character turned out to be Wolverine, one of the manliest man’s man of all time.

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Noah Berlatsky

Noah Berlatsky — Mon, 21 May 2012 03:01:05 +0000

Right; Catwoman definitely sounds like fanny. It’s the fetishization of the female protagonist, not just having one.

Marvel comics of that era were definitely partly influenced by romance tropes. The triangles tended to be strongly from the perspective of the guys in most cases though, rather than form the viewpoint of the women.

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by pallas

pallas — Mon, 21 May 2012 02:50:01 +0000

“the girl-has-to-choose-between-two-hunky-guys thing is totally a romance for girls trope.”

Marvel comics has had one girl two guy pairings with Sue Reed/Namor and Jean Cyclops/Wolverine.

But I do see your point. You’re saying Catwoman is Fanny due to the cheesecake, not due to the female protagonist? (Meridian, the Crossgen comic about a teenage girl princess, was aimed at girls but mostly read by direct market male readers if I remember a podcast interview with the Barbara Kesel correctly. )

Comment on Moby vs. Hill by Noah Berlatsky

Noah Berlatsky — Mon, 21 May 2012 02:17:22 +0000

No, I don’t think that’s right. The Hunger Games just isn’t exploitive at all the way fanny fiction is. The love triangle is all wrong too; fanny is about girls having lots of different men and (often) lesbian subtext; the girl-has-to-choose-between-two-hunky-guys thing is totally a romance for girls trope.

Male and female genre fiction designations are in some sense arbitrary marketing categories — but the marketing categories themselves affect content and have a major effect on genres over time. You don’t turn fanny into romance just by reshelving it.