In response to my last post, my brother writes:
As for MJ’s and Spidey’s inconsistency over the years…I see your point here, except for the notion that these characters are ONLY corporate properties shamelessly manipulated and put-upon by their writers/artists, who care not a whit about them. Although this is “work-for-hire” and one might expect that attitude from creators towards characters, I think that this is, in fact, rarely the case in the comics themselves. Most Marvel/DC “hacks” do care about the characters, want to keep them somewhat consistent (except insofar as periodic reboots attempt to update them for today’s kids, etc.) and want them to be meaningful, to appeal to readers, etc. They may fail…contradict each other…etc…but your implication that there is a practiced cynicism towards the characters in the creative process is doubtful.
I see where Eric’s coming from, but the point really isn’t cynicism or lack thereof. I like/respect fan fiction and what it’s about. The problem is that DC/Marvel isn’t open source; it’s corporate controlled. That means that instead of having lots of fans doing whatever weird things they want in their own little worlds (Spider-Man/Daredevil slash, for example) you’ve got (for the most part) the same insular group of drooling fanboys trying to relive their youth…but make it cool by adding sex! and rock and roll! and…and…and revamping the continuity! Whoo-hoo!
Fan fiction in manga contexts is generally about expanding on ideas or finding new stuff or tracking down private obsessions — the stuff good art is about, in other words. Mainstream titles, on the other hand, tend to be about a death duel between nostalgia, boredom, and a kind of giggling desire to desecrate one’s own idols in an effort to show that one is smarter than the childhood that one is clearly still clinging to.
Not that everyone who writes this stuff is horrible, but the whole exercise just has a stink of death and futility about it. The Mary Jane doll thing is a case in point; the outrage really seemed to be not so much that anyone would do this, as that…”This Is Official! How dare Marvel desecrate her!” I mean, who the hell cares what this moribund corporation does with a character that really wasn’t all that interesting to begin with? If you see something interesting in her, make up your own stories about her. But for goodness sakes can’t we stop worrying about what the corporate powers that be think we should be thinking about these characters? The best thing that could happen to the super-hero genre is for copyright to be abolished. Till that happens, though, I guess it’ll just continue to be powered by empty astonishment, hollow outrage, and plodding genuflection before a continuity that was always idiotic to begin with.
I agree with you, when you read the way she talks in those old comics, it’s like Stan was hitting himself on the head with a hammer before he wrote each line.
I’m really amazed that people can summon up the outrage. It’s like they have a bottomless well of outrage that they can just draw from again and again without having to worry.
But doesn’t your argument apply to all copyrighted characters? Aren’t they all essentially meaningless?
Hey Philip. Well, all characters are automatically copyrighted as soon as they’re created (I give you…Captain Fortran! Obsolete, yet protected from infringement for all eternity!) The problem isn’t with the copyright, but with the corporate ownership — though even by those standards, comics do remarkably badly. I mean, Dr. Who is a corporate (or government, same diff) owned property, but there seems to be some modicum of interest in creating decent stories/not fucking up the brand. I think it’s the corporate ownership and the insular audience together that does it; the sense that no matter what you do with these characters in this medium, you’ll get a certain amount of people to read it, no less no more, so who the hell cares about quality control?
I think for a lot of fans, the joy of comic books isn’t in reading or even enjoying the stories. The joy is in the community and the discussion.
The controversies aren’t something that need to be resolved. They give the community something to talk about. Most comic book fans enjoy being angry at something. It lets them vent.
You don’t just invest in a character because you are interested in the character, but because it helps create your identity in the group. Go to any comic store and you have your Spider-Man guy, your Superman guy, and your Transformers guy.
By producing a small number of “official” stories, publishers create an easily accessible, common framework that unites people across the world.
Knowledge of this framework creates
a sense of “us” and “them”. It also allows someone from Philadelphia to instantly strike up a conservation with someone from Alaska at a convention in San Diego.
If people wanted to make up their own stories, they would already be doing it. There is nothing stopping them.
By going “open source”, you would certainly fracture the community into many small independent pieces. I don’t think anyone is looking for that. Comics fans enjoy the companionship and acceptance of the large group.
Is this desirable or healthy? I don’t know. As I write this, I can’t help but think about the parallels between my description of comic fandom and religion.
Now I know why you’re outraged Noah.
The best thing that could happen to the super-hero genre is for copyright to be abolished.
Funny you should say that. There are already tons of Golden Age superheroes that lapsed into public domain. The results have been quite interesting precisely because each creator is free to do anything they want with the characters, leading to an array of diverse interpretations. Just look at Black Terror. There is the Roy Thomas’ Alter Ego version, Eclipse Comics version, AC Comics version, Terra Obscura version, Project Superpowers version and, judging by the solicitation, we’ll soon see a Savage Dragon version. No version is quite like the other.
Right…but when you say MJ is treated by her writers/artists with “off-hand contempt”–you are, in fact, indicting the creators as purveyors of malicious cynicism…which is rarely (although perhaps occasionally) the case
I mean, intentionality is tricky and all that, but…well, Tom Crippen has a good example. In his essay on Spider-Man/MJ, he notes that one of the big changes in Civil War was that Spider-Man was unmasked. But Marvel management later reported that they never meant that to last; they knew they were rebooting the character anyway, so they could do whatever they pleased…or as Joe Quesada put it they had a “way out ahead of time, it was a great place to be.” In other words, they were deliberately jerking the fans around. That sort of thing seems to happen all the damn time; to me it shows a lack of respect for the audience, the characters, and the material. Sure, maybe these people are all fanboys who love Spider-man. But people often treat those they love like crap.