Keira Lozeau- age 17
My first meeting as a high school teacher was almost five years ago to this date, mid-August, on a hot Washington afternoon. I was a new hire at a school district to the north of Seattle, and I was young at twenty five, still idealistic despite a rough student teacher period.
The room was spacious and beautiful, with large open windows and large group seating. The entire district’s staff of visual art teachers was present, and they were in the midst of a casual discussion as I entered, five minutes late.
“I mean, what do I do with those damn anime kids anyway?” the silver-haired teacher said slowly, shaking her head. The others laughed and sighed in sympathy.
“What do you mean?” I asked, before I realized I was drawing attention to myself, something I had vowed not to do anymore after my last educational employment experience.
Nicole Ham, age 17
Introductions were made, and more chitchat was had about the problem at hand, namely, the Damn Anime Kid. “They just wanna draw the same stuff over and over again. The big eyes, the tiny chins, pointy hair. Whatever.” Others commiserated. “I can’t tell when they’re copying other stuff or when it’s their own characters or what. And even if they say it’s their own characters, all of it looks the same anyway. It’s all virtually identical. So even if it’s technically original, they’re not learning anything anyway.”
At the time I just sat back and took it in, unbelieving. What do you do with those damn anime kids, huh? You mean, the kids that are interested in drawing? The ones that are interested in learning concrete skills that will help them tell stories, with an interest in the human body, in posture and proportion? Gosh, what is an art teacher to do with such challenging students?
As a half-baked cartoonist I had an advantage over my colleagues, and fortunately for me I was not above using this with my students. It was easy to see after even a few weeks of classes that many of the students that were dedicated to various manga, or just drew Yugioh over and over again, were also students that many times had difficult home lives. It isn’t difficult to imagine that a teenager with real problems at home would find refuge in fiction, and fiction inaccessible to their parents or less-dedicated peers would naturally have an even greater cachet.
M.A., age 18
Nikyla McLain- age 16
I found this perception of the of the manga or anime enthusiast as social leper simultaneously the closest to the truth and the least useful of the clichés surrounding these students. This was also the cliché most likely to be common knowledge, as evidenced by one teacher I knew who once explained to me the lineage of the otaku. “No, these kids have been around for a while. They just used to draw super heroes or whatever. Or sports cars. We still have some of those–the kid that just wants to draw the one view of the same race car over and over again. Then there were the dragon kids before that. Of course, we still have some of them too.”
After a few years of working with these students, both as a teacher and as adviser to the school’s Anime and Manga Club, I had the opportunity to give some presentations at state and other regional conferences, and I used it to talk about these students, whom I identified with and had a genuine desire to advocate for. I titled my presentation after that first teacher’s comment regarding these students–What Do I Do With Those Darn Anime Kids? The title was, in addition to being catchy, also ambiguous enough that I had a wide range of teachers attend, ranging from other club advisers that were looking for suggestions on what to do with their programs, to teachers that had a genuine hostility towards these students and their interests. And the ensuing discussions provided me with a broader perspective on secondary art school opinions regarding anime and manga, and more broadly, on sequential art in general.
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J.J.- age 17
These opinions seemed to have less to do with the students and their interests than the teacher’s own art backgrounds. For teachers who had their formative art experiences in the art education system, representational art in general and any type of cartooning specifically didn’t address enough what they might consider to be “personal expression,” i.e. the idea of art as therapy or release. For these teachers, of which there are still a great deal, art is what happens without instruction, without stricture, and concerns with form, style or narrative are distractions from the true art experience.
There seemed to be just as many teachers whose formative art experiences took place in a more formal academic art background, and whether that background was based out of the studio or out of the art history classroom, it was very easy for them to dismiss budding cartoonists in their classrooms. After all, any comic is by nature illustration, and therefore not art. (I once walked into an upper-level high school art classroom where a well-meaning and very knowledgeable teacher was leading an oral dissection of the Andrew Wyeth painting “Christina’s World.” “So,” she said to them as I walked into the room, “Is Wyeth an illustrator? Or is he an artist?”) Having survived several years of fine arts training myself, this was not an unfamiliar attitude to me, but I was continually surprised to find it in the secondary school environment, especially considering the broad nature of the students we teachers were supposed to be serving.
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Katelynn Orellana- age 17
Of course, there was a lot for me to be frustrated with too. Much of this was part of learning to readjust my expectations, realizing, for instance, that just because students are interested in reading comics, and say that they’re interested in making comics of their own, doesn’t necessarily mean that they will go through all of the necessary skill building and labor necessary to do so. The first year I was adviser to the club we barely managed to scrape together a publication, and it was a compromise in every way–padded with pin-ups and work with which the artists themselves were not satisfied. From the second year on I concentrated more on skills building and low-risk activities that had a high likelihood of success–the Scott McCloud-adapted “four hour comic” was among the most popular. (Four pages in four hours, with music and pizza and soda, and many kudos for those who crossed the finish line. Sometimes we tried a variation on this, dividing up into teams for the duration, with each team member having a clearly-defined role in the production. These usually turned out a little less crazed, but a little more visually punchy and thus more likely to be included in future publications.)
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Five years and several hundred pages of student comics
But it’s not frustration that I remember now, looking back on my five years of working with art students, the club members, or members of the cartooning class I taught my last two years. It’s a feeling of real accomplishment–of having met students at their own level, at their own interests, and helping turn those interests inwards, helping identify and eventually obtain the skills that will bring them an outlet for their own stories, for their own burgeoning creativity. I remember lunches in my classroom, inking tutorials and jam comics. I remember watching four of the club members whipping out a twenty page comic in four days, each one of them taking on a different task. I remember how proud they were giving out copies of their comic anthology at an event at the Seattle Public Library, and the genuine enthusiasm the other cartoonists and comic fans had for their book. I remember when I finally realized how much I had learned from them, from their love and their interest, their tenacity and their promise. I remember when I realized that all the practice helping other people with their drawing had finally affected me as well. When I realized I was no longer an interested amateur, but a cartoonist capable of producing work I could be proud of.
So, what does one do with those damn anime kids? How about recognize that, as students that already have an interest and a passion, they’re several steps ahead of many of their peers. How about meeting them at their level. How about showing them how the skills you can teach them connect to their interests. How about remembering that the impulse to make art is always with us, and that things grow in the places that we cultivate.
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Andie Sellers + Xochitl Briones – age 15 and 16
Andie Sellers + Xochitl Briones – age 15 and 16
really interesting viewpoint, which touches upon some of my own experiences as a (substitute) comics teacher for a class of young adults who for the most part had never drawn comics. i actually found it very hard to connect with students working in a manga/anime style, since as you say they were often way ahead of their peers; but also because stylistically, there was not much i could do to help them improve their art, not being well versed in manga myself (aside from some choice tezuka, say — but that’s not really what they read).
so i often felt a disconnect, as though what i was trying to teach (admittedly with the limited skills at my disposal) only concerned comics NOT manga. it was hard instigating whatever dialogue: once, for instance, i suggested to one such student that maybe he should draw the father to look older than his child. to which he just responded with a blank stare: so there’s two ways around this: either i misunderstood certain tropes of manga which don’t bother regular readers, either the student mistrusts my opinion. either way, without understanding manga more profoundly than i do, it’ll remain very hard for me to connect — & making for quite a frustrating teaching experience, actually.
so i can sort of see where the “damn anime kids” comment comes from, even though i agree with you that it must be addressed head-on, & undismissively. so again, thanks for your text.
Excellent post. Thank you.
David,
That sounds like a perfectly valid criticism, and I’m sure the reasons it was deflected or not responded to have more to do with the student than any stylistic gulf between you- after all, most professional manga artists have no difficulty indicating age, although the cues can be a little different. I think the real trick is addressing the student at their level and with their interests and leaving style considerations alone for a while- to a lot of developing artists making suggestions on “style” can seem like suggestions about themselves, as if it’s something ingrained that they can’t change or reconsider. And of course this is also something you can address, in a careful way. One way could be by having a student redraw a panel from one comic by mimicking the styles of two or three others.
Lastly, you might take up a little cultural anthropology and dive into some manga. Want any recommendations?
Great post. I would love to read more about art education and comics.
Basque and Robert- Thanks! And Robert, I’m planning on writing more on the topic, so here’s to finding a regular home for such a thing.
sean,
your suggestions are very good, though i’m afraid not all of them might apply in my situation (extra-curricular class, few hours, not much material to work with except paper, tables & chairs). students also run the gamut from the quite accomplished to those without any previous drawing experience, so i have to deal with all of those (that’s actually the toughest part). but the gist of your suggestions is very relevant, & i’ll make sure to mention this to the regular teacher.
one thing i did in my second semester (out of two, so far) was to ask students to bring in a comic that was significant to them, & then to talk about it informally with the whole class. this worked very well, actually. not only i was pleasantly surprised by the level of literacy in display, it seemed like a good way for everyone to see where their peers were coming from, style-wise. i think everyone found that a very positive experience.
otherwise, it seems like the main point is that it is up to the teacher to be somewhat fluent with manga, so as to be able to address stylistic/aesthetic points with a modicum of authority. this actually echoes some of the problems my girlfriend encounters in her anthropology teaching job, with some students asking about adam & eve. her solution, which seems to work very well, is to talk frankly about the book of genesis, what it does say, what it implies, & so on: it forces her students to think a bit harder (most of them, she found, have never actually read genesis), & raises the level of the dialogue. (not that i want to compare manga enthusiasts to creationists but… you get my point.)
(haha, looks like genesis can’t help but spilling into every conversation happening on HU. sorry!)
another thing i had gathered previously is that manga, notwithstanding its aesthetic aspects, has a generational aspect: it is this generation’s punk rock, if you will. we’ve been like that in our youth, so hey, fair enough. but it does add some difficulty in establishing a dialogue, since it’s easy to be dismissed as just some old fart who’s not getting it. probably, again, the solution comes with showing that you have the means to talk with authority about manga.
so yeah, enough with me, but sure, i’ll take recommendations! (& i’ll be looking forward to your future posts on teaching, for sure.)
To me this break with the past is even more pronounced than the punk rock comparison would suggest. It looks like the slate has been swept clean. Punk did have long term reach, but the generation gap was there long before it made its mark. Manga seems to be more widely accepted than punk was at the outset. Considering how daunting it is for most adults to get into manga, I would say a more apt comparison would be the mid-50s with the coming of Elvis and Chuck Berry and all the rest.
Nothing but upside to this. A generation of kids not influenced by superhero comics is a great thing. There’s going to be some damn fine cartoonists in the future.
Never been a teacher, but I have two perspectives on this: as a would-be cartoonist in high school and university art classes, as a father of two very good manga-inspired artists. I’m sure I frustrated some of my teachers as my kids have frustrated me: “You can really draw, why are you limiting yourself to drawing like THAT?”
Depending on how it’s handled, I think it’s both hurtful and helpful to learn that the art skills that so impress your peers don’t cut much mustard elsewhere. The best art teachers I had were those who took a look at my work, said “Oh, comics, eh?” and then steered me to drawing the real world rather than the stock poses and props I’d appropriated from a thousand comics. They made me try new approaches and media I wasn’t good at instead of the same old crap I could do in my sleep. I think this is especially important with students who 1) draw manga, which is rigidly stylized to begin with, and 2) are young, and therefore very imitative. I know kids who can draw laser-mounted space dragons destroying galaxies, but can’t draw a telephone. Some gentle breaking and boundary-stretching is in order.
Absolutely, meet the kids halfway. No teacher should be cruelly dismissive. But I think a teacher’s mission should be to nurture better artists, not better manga artists. If they have the skills and drive, they’ll master the manga on their own without your help. I suggest that a good goal would be to expand their knowledge, expose them to techniques and traditions they wouldn’t otherwise see, that they can then integrate into their cartooning work if they want. I’d be interested in what manga flavored by Impressionism or Cubism might look like. That’s what’ll give them an original look and voice, not drawing the same stuff like everybody else.
The comic world is certainly a strange place that, unfortunately doesn’t get the credit it deserves. A friend and former classmate (at The Savannah College of Art and Design for the Sequential program) recommended this article to me, and I’m quite glad he did. It’s refreshing to hear an open-minded opinion about artists of varying styles, and nurturing young artists. I really enjoyed this article. Thank you.
Brian-
I completely agree with you about boundary stretching, and I hope I didn’t give the impression that my classes were devoid of challenging instruction and/or drawing from life. Quite the opposite- I reinforced over and over again how the foundational skills (life drawing, rendering texture and value, etc) we were working on would carry over into the area that they were already interested in. In other words, using their interests and passions instead of dismissing them. Some teachers I knew used this approach in a very calculated and, to me, disingenuous way though- i.e. “I WILL get them to like REAL art!” And though it might seem like a fine line, I think there’s a difference between the two approaches.
Siegfried- It’s really interesting to work with young cartoonists and find that they’ve internalized certain storytelling tricks intuitively that I had to arrive at through brute force and repetition. It’s going to be a different world.
David- It sounds like you have an excellent class. A show-and-tell of their favorite comics is a great way to get a feel for what all of your students are into, and often times opens up some of them that have been the quietest in the class. I can see how it would bring up discussion of style as well.
If you’re working with teenagers and just want to have some rough idea of the types of things they might be exposed to, you might just go to the library and check out a single volume each of Naruto, Death Note, Fruits Basket, maybe Ouran Host Club, Nana, or Full Metal Alchemist. That’ll give you a little cultural primer- sort of the equivalent of learning about television by sitting around for an afternoon and watching the pilots of Friends, ER, Seinfeld and Deadwood all in a row.
I always tried to stock my classroom shelf with manga that I enjoyed, that I thought might broaden their horizons a bit as well- Eagle, Planetes, Yotsuba, all ones I’d recommend if you haven’t read them. As far as American comics went, Scott Pilgrim and Hutch Owen always flew off my shelf, but your mileage may vary.
Tara-
Thanks for the kind words!
You have some beautiful pages on your site- I love the delicate washes.
Great read. I am a SCAD graduate who majored in Sequential Art, and I also have tried teaching comics to kids in a classroom environment, so I empathize with you situation.
Fortunately for me, when I was in high school, my art teacher was never dismissive of my anime-inspired artwork, but encouraged me to paint or draw anything I wanted. It was when I got to college(both at the local university and lower level classes at SCAD) that I ran into the dismissive attitudes and upturned noses. Most people were just not aware of the different types of stories that were being told throughout the world, the amount of work, artistry and dedication involved in making sequential art, or that there are comics made in almost every medium.
That being said, I was able to impart some of that knowledge on the students I taught. Their favorite activity and the one where they really started to understand storytelling in a pure form was drawing a narrative corpse. I would give them a certain set of criteria(a list of different people, places, and things) and each student would draw an illustration with those criteria. They would then pass that illustration to the next person in line and that person would draw the next panel in the story. They would pass only their drawing to the next person, and so on, so that at the end of the class, each person would have a finished book. The students responded really well to this and had a blast doing it.
I know absolutely nothing about art. I am, however, surrounded by incredibly talented people, who are artists in multiple media. I am an editor, a publisher, a consumer of sequential, illustrative and fine art.
What I do know is people.
Your approach is Clarkian magic, simply because it approaches passion with a desire to curate and nurture it, rather than a desire to squelch it.
I can’t tell you how many of the young people I know run into those other teachers, who feel as if a desire to do manga art is in some hideous way an offense to the gods of ART.
Thank you for not being one of those teachers.
This reminds me of a (in retrospect kind of jerky) exchange I had with another art teacher years ago.
Him: I just don’t know how to get them to stop drawing all this Manga stuff.
Me: Im pretty sure that getting students to STOP drawing isn’t what an art teacher is supposed to do.
Great post! You are an awesome teacher. Very inspirational!
Casey- Thanks for the kind words. I used several variations on exquisite corpse in my comics classes, and other “limitation” exercises, and you’re absolutely right- they’re great for opening up possibilities, and also freeing students up to be a bit more casual and exploratory in their drawing and narrative. Jam comics were always a hit as well, although one particular semester the kids instituted a “no explosion” rule to cover the most common jam comic ending ^_^
Ben- It doesn’t sound jerky to me, rather, a quite appropriate response to a teacher being dismissive of his student’s interests. I’ve certainly had many similar exchanges in the past five years, and if this post has legs, I’m sure I will have many many more.
Chris- Thanks! Past tense at this point though- this spring was my last semester for the foreseeable future. Short version- massive stress and a desire to finish a book. Long version possibly to follow in future posts…
Erica- Thanks! About the “hideous offense to the Gods of Art” my fellow Bureau of Drawers cartoonist Tyler Hill had this to say-
“Within the art community, I think there’s too much of a tendency to act like there is some sort of Hierarchy of Artistic Merit. Fine Artists look down on commercial illustrators. Commercial illustrators look down on comic illustrators. Comic illustrator look down Manga illustrators. Etc. Etc. On and on. All that focus on perceived merit and the differences tends to downplay the similarities between them all. And that, regardless of style, most artists/illustrators are trying to achieve similar goals: Connecting with others.”
And I tend to agree.
As for you not knowing anything about art… I hope that’s hyperbole and not your real feelings on the matter. As a self-described editor and publisher and consumer, you certainly demonstrate knowledge and individual judgment with each decision you make, most of which are going to be aesthetic in nature.
Unfortunately, the attitude that being knowledgeable about art, or being an artist, means being born with some type of magical power (i.e. talent), is one that has a lot of cachet in our culture, but has little utility to us mere mortals, the non-artists. I hope to tackle the possible roots of some of these attitudes in another post, tentatively titled “Tractor Theory and the Fetal Artist.” No, really.
I don’t know if anyone’s seen this before, but reading this reminded me of this other article highlighting the variety of manga styles as a comeback to “it all looks the same” from art teachers:
http://www.paulgravett.com/index.php/articles/article/mangaphobia1/
Matt- Cool link! I love the festival pictures on your blog as well- it looks like you had an amazing time in Japan. I got the opportunity to visit schools in Japan three years ago as part of the now-defunct JFMF program, and I had a blast- an amazing, life-altering experience.
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Sean, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I (and my wife, who is one of the incredibly talented people I find myself surrounded by) agree with Tyler’s summation as well.
When I say I know nothing about art, I’m being completely serious – and totally facetious at the same time. I edit and publish comics, I’ve been a consumer of sequential art for almost 4 decades, and just about all my closest friends are fine artists in more media than I can name. *I* can’t draw a straight line with a ruler, but I know about art enough to recognize the influence of Hans Bellmer in Ghost In the Shell: Innocence.
I know enough about art to know what I like (or don’t) and why I like it (or don’t.) I also know nothing. at all. about it. I’m glad to be in a perpetual state of learning. ^_^
What a fantastic article you’ve written, Mr. Robinson. There’s so much here that can be applied to libraries, too–the reminder of the fact that this IS art (you wouldn’t believe how many library staff believe comics and manga are repulsive and/or junk) and the advice on how to encourage the talent that’s there and meet young people where they are. I think I might have to test-run your Four Hour Comics scheme as a teen program. How many people are usually on each team, and how do they divide the tasks amongst themselves?
Emily (? YA Lib UK)-
Thanks for your interest! A four-hour comic event can be a great experience, but it might be a bit tricky to do a collaborative four hour comic if the participants don’t know each other or haven’t met before, or you don’t have an assessment beforehand of their current skill level and/or confidence.
In the after school club we would generally have drawing sessions and show-and-tell type situations beforehand where the students got a chance to see each others art and I got a chance to assess things. And as I mentioned before, sometimes we’d do four hour comics completely individually, stressing the importance of just making a story over making something look “perfect”- reminding them that the process can be as important as the outcome, and that actually sitting down and drawing comics is the best way to get better at drawing comics. The advantage to the individual ones is the interesting stories they come up with on their own, untethered from any type of planning. The disadvantage is that many of them will not have the confidence or the focus to complete the pages (although loud music can help :) )
So as far as the group ones went, we usually divided up the club members into teams of three to five apiece, trying to be careful to make sure to distribute the skills as evenly as possible- if you have two or three students that draw very well and draw very quickly, it’s probably a good idea to separate them into different teams. Then I’d have some type of prompt, either drawn out of a cup or some other method of semi-randomization. You could have the prompt be a title, or a theme, or just an object that they have to include in their comic.
From there they divided up the tasks- sometimes one person was the writer, who figured out what was actually going to happen and how it would occur, but more often the writer was everyone working in concert, and planning it out super rough on scrap paper beforehand. The general “leadership” role was the person who drew the figures or main items/subjects in pencil. Sometimes that person also inked the main figures, sometimes passed it on to another person who had that role. Another role was a person responsible for backgrounds, either just in pencil or in pencil and ink, depending on how many other people are participating. Another person could be someone who’s erasing the pencil, doing some type of wash or hatching to the page, color, whatever- a last stage cleanup and polish person.
You can see from the complicated explanation why it’s best to save this exact activity for when you know the students fairly well, have a good idea of who can do what and who gets along with whom.
If you’re looking for an easier setup, I’d recommend doing jam comics with the students- i.e. one participant draws a panel, passes it on to the next one who draws a panel in response, on down the line. There are all types of fun things you can do to give these some focus too, including prompts as discussed above, or other strictures, like cutting an out-of context panel from another comic (preferrably something they wouldn’t be familiar with, like a Cathy panel or something) and using that as the first panel.
The thing that all of these activities have in common are the freedom they give to impulsive artistic action, something important when you’re dealing with students who are at the age where they’ve become stymied by their own critical faculties. So, loosen them up, and I hope you all have a blast! And make sure you get to participate as well. (if you need any more info on any of this, feel free to comment further or email me at seanmichaelrobinson at gmail )
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What do you do when these kids want to pursue a career with their “anime” and “manga” style, as we westerners have coined the term. I currently go to an art school where the eastern style is generally frowned upon. I mean, it’s good that you’re encouraging them, but what happens when they seriously want to pursue something, go to an art school, and get shot down for drawing a particular way?
Hey Lilka-
I think there are several problems and/or questions nested in your comment, and it would be hard to do justice to them in a quick comment, or even another post. A student who wants to continue making art past the high school level certainly has a lot of choices ahead of them, and a lot of those choices will involve some challenges. One question worth asking is if art school is really neccesary if your goals all involve making comics. If you really want to improve your drawing overall, stepping out of your stylistic comfort zone is an important step (as someone quite rightly pointed out earlier in the comments section). But if your aspirations are to be able to tell effective stories through art, an art school might not be the best choice. I know two ex students of mine right off the top of my head that were fabulous cartoonists in high school and are now working jobs they hate to pay off their $25,000 a year art school education. So, the short version- buyer beware, and take a real careful look at your current goals and what’s going to get you closer to realizing them. Long version will have to wait for another time… best of luck to you!
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My daughter (in agricultural college) loves drawing anime – I’ll show her this brilliant post!
Sean this is a fantastic post!
We have a similar issue in the UK, art curriculums are pretty mired in the classics, which isn’t a bad thing but the teachers were very classic too.
I consider myself a pretty skilled artist but my interest has always been in cartoons more than real life. So my inspirations were generally related to Walt Disney’s classics and fictional characters. My secondary school teacher absolutely hated that my GCSE sketch book dared to use cartoons as reference. I remember he was amazed when I did a decent painting of my bathroom and left a comment suggesting I might of gotten someone else to do it…
He also expected everyone to do it the way he laid it out, we all did coke bottles once and I got a little carried away with starting to paint, which I was critisised for. Anything less than a best shot intepretation of someones work wasn’t good enough
But it was a 2 year long battle that I lost in the end. I suffered from an illness that kept me out of school a long time and, unsurprisingly, I didn’t improve much in second year as I just hadn’t been well enough to really study. In the end he derided my work in front of the class and I simply quit.
I did a retake at another school and the teacher ENCORAGED expression and individual artistic spins on life and others art. I remember the first class we were given a large bundle of objects to look at and sketch, we were told not to worry about it being perfect, just draw what we think or feel. It was so liberating and I finally took to more traditional art, with my final project based on my cartooning
I did an A level in art 2 and a half years ago and again back to a classic teacher. She loved “painterly” things, which was problematic for me because I can’t paint very well (I have dyspraxia and suffer poor hand-eye coordination). I did my best to study a mix of everything and even avoided manga at her behest. For all my efforts I got a big stinking fail, simply because paint wasn’t a medium I’m good at.
I’m still drawing and I now make sure to practice some traditional art from time to time and working on anatomy right now. I admit some of my failings were my fault, but at the same time, it really takes the wind out of your sails when someone tells you that your art style and skill are pretty much bunk :/
Awesome post, Sean – and sounds like those students were lucky to have an art teacher like you!
I run workshops in schools now and then and do other teaching too, and I’ve encountered so many horror stories about teachers with that same “damn anime kids” attitude.
Of course, it’s not just art teachers; I remember an English teacher who wanted to teach comics at high school, but was frustrated that all the kids wanted to talk about was the X-Men and the Simpsons. It hadn’t occured to her that there might be any themes worth exploring in the X-Men or Simpsons (!). The comics *she* was into and considered worthwhile were serious graphic novels like Maus, not the ‘trash’ the kids were into.
To her credit, though, her eyes lit up when we talked it over and she began to realise what could be achieved by suspending her knee-jerk judgements and starting with what the students were already into – going to where they were at – and then getting them to dig deeper. Once people pointed out the way the X-Men can be read as a story about marginalisation and identity, boy did she get excited!
It’s amazing what teachers can learn when they sit down and actually listen to their students…
BTW, I love the way you talk about “serving” the students. Amazing how easy it can be to forget that!
It doesn’t take too long to become conversant in the whys and hows of manga and their are plenty of resources available. Considering that teaching is a job that requires teachers to learn as well, there’s little excuse for not being able to work with those darn anime kids.
Rebecca-
Thanks for sharing your story- being discouraged and/or driven away by art teachers and classes is unfortunately all too common. Here’s hoping that you keep at it, and try your best to remember every time you’re in one of those situations that you’re the one paying for the course- it only exists because of you- and you should try your damnedest to get as much out of that experience as you possibly can. Even if the person is not particularly sensitive or adept at knowing how to teach a particular skill, they probably have many things to offer you, skills that you yourself don’t currently possess. Try to make a game of it, get those skills from them to spite them, if for no other reason :)
Dylan- Thank you for the kind words, and for bringing it around to other teaching disciplines.
“It’s amazing what teachers can learn when they sit down and actually listen to their students…”
Incredibly true. I learned more in my first year of teaching than in all four years of my formal education.
William,
The argument from the other side is that there’s nothing worthwhile to be learned- that you may as well have the kids sitting in front of Jerry Springer. And frankly, that attitude toward manga isn’t unique to teachers- it wouldn’t take you long looking around the Comics Journal message board to find the same attitudes. I don’t know exactly where it comes from, but it’s very common.
As far as teachers learning, there are many teachers out there that try to stretch their boundaries as often as they can. And there are an equal amount that are beaten down by the formalized daycare duties of the public school system, the constant accounting and paperwork, the apathy of students, and all of the bureaucratic entanglements that can make it such a draining job. When they feel beaten down, many of them just keep their head down and push through it, looking forward to that day that they’ll be free from their duties. For me, when I felt myself reaching that point, I just quit. I’m still not sure which one is the better solution.
Lilka,
You’re just as likely to get shot down for drawing fantasy or illustration or anything representational in art school. I know a lot of self taught artists who are amazing. It is possible to learn what you want to do outside of an art school.
I think teachers could concentrate on teaching things like simple methods of constructing figures with more correct anatomy, as well as proportion rules. Most schools skip right past that in life drawing classes because they expect no one to ever want to draw from their imagination. High School kids could probably use that along with their interest in comics to make their comics better.
M-
Great advice. As far as construction for figures, you’re totally correct- I had three separate figure drawing classes at two different universities before construction (thinking about how a body is put together) was ever mentioned- all the emphasis was on observational drawing- which is really useful in breaking habits and learning to really look, but is useless in being able to transfer any observational practice into imaginative drawing. Without some amount of thinking about what you’re looking at, those observational skills just don’t transfer into the visualization skills of cartooning.
It’s been a long time since I took art in school, but I didn’t like the experience in junior high or high school. I considered myself a good artist and didn’t like being criticized for what I did. For example, when we were told to do something with pen-and-ink, I drew a kid with freckles. The teacher asked what was wrong with him.
In college I had friends who were art majors. This was decades ago, but it sounds like art is still taught this way. At two different colleges in different parts of the country, what I saw was cookie cutter art. The instructors had everyone producing versions of what the instructors expected.
A third program did impress me. Students were taught how to use the tools (e.g., various forms of painting, sculpture, pottery, glassblowing), but what they created was up to them. So while one student might do something very abstract, another might do something representational. I think far more professional artists came out of that program than the other two schools.
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Sean, I have the lowliest of teaching jobs. I teach ESL to Japanese children. It’s really just English edutainment. The most strenuous thing I do is sing along to the A,B,C Song with three year olds.
Even I have to constantly learn new things in order to get the kids going, and keep them form being discouraged.
Your “danged anime kids!” peers have no excuses, in my mind. None.
And if I were to teach comics, I’d spend a few weeks teaching them the importance of backgrounds and placing your characters in it.
William,
Sounds like an interesting job- pretty frustrating at times, I’d imagine.
I didn’t mean to appear combative or defensive- I was just trying to point out that if one of these teachers were to respond to me, they would probably point out that, for many of them, it’s all they can do to keep their heads above the water, that the daily work can be tremendous and draining.
>>And if I were to teach comics, I’d spend a few weeks teaching them the importance of backgrounds and placing your characters in it.>>>
You should try teaching comics sometime! Your stuff looks cool- I’m sure you’d have a lot to offer students. Unfortunately, I found that sometimes the things I wanted them to learn, that I was sure they’d picked up through my constant repetition, were the first things they ditched when working on their own :)
I didn’t mean to appear combative or defensive
Don’t worry, I got your intent. :)
You should try teaching comics sometime! Your stuff looks cool
Thanks!
But teaching comics seems harder than teaching the A,B,C Song. Maybe if there was a “Drawing Hands” song…
What a terrific post, a great insight and connection that is also well grounded and realistic.
So much goes through me on this. I don’t really “get” the manga/anime thing, but I’m starting to, and decided it would be worth my while to let it in. I teach multimedia/computer art, have been doing cartoon for around 7 years, and am learning to paint more formally. No art education, but the most important part you talk about is connecting to and accepting the kids. This is what education is about. I’m also pretty big on the elements and principles, but important to remember my clients are humans, and my job is to tap their potential so they can turn it on for themselves.
Your piece is very inspiring. Thanks.
I was one of yours and Mrs. ____’s art students. Shortly after finishing your classes, I was discouraged from drawing. Why? I couldn’t break out of that dang anime style. Reading your opinion on those years now, actually makes me want to pick up a pencil and paper again. I didn’t realize you saw the potential in the anime kids. I didn’t realize until now that even though I drew in the “anime” style, I still could learn the basic principles of art. Maybe if I were a better student, instead of being vain about my work, I could have taken something from yours and ______’s class, instead of not drawing for 3 years afterward.
Thank you, and thank you for being supportive when I was working on the comic you pictured in this post.
Rob- Thanks for the kind words…
Anon- Hope you don’t mind that I’ve edited out the name of your other teacher. I hope you continue to make art, in one form or another- it seemed like you always had multiple projects going on in so many areas. I wish you would have had an Intro class with me, and it’s possible things would have been different had we worked together in that context rather than the cartooning class.
I think you’ll find some peace when you learn to not be so hard on yourself, give yourself some room to breathe. Try to remember that there will always be time to be critical about something later, but that you have to turn off that critical facility temporarily during the actual act of creation, or to really build a skill. If you’re singing a song and you’re thinking to yourself the whole time “I’m gonna be flat- am I sharp? Shoot, I bet I’m going to screw up this part” then you never have the opportunity to really perform it. You and I are both people that are very critical of ourselves, who are hyper aware of our own failings- it can be a long road to learning to navigate the creative impulse with this analytical one.
All the best, and take care of yourself.
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ok if these anime drawers are good at what they do then let them loose. I’m only twelve and I’m an anime drawer, and i think that if you have something as good as anime to draw, then draw. :)
I just got back into drawing a few days ago thanks to anime/manga. I love how the characters have a sort of edgy look to them. I agree with you. I think if it interests the students, then it can’t be a bad thing. Let them do their thing. I only took one art class in high school, ceramics. I hated my teacher so much because she always wanted me to add this or add that to my work. I just wanted to tell her to “Shut the ‘bleep’ up. This is my art, not yours.” I never took another art class in high school after that. I also glued a few staplers to her desk in the mean time. Thanks for the great post.
Art teachers are such snobs.
I am an art teacher who cares enough to try to understand where ‘these damn anime kids’ are coming from.
I have been trying to connect the skills I’m teaching with the skills needed for anime, but I acknowledge that I have to fake my respect for my students interests.
There, I said it.
What I’ll take away from this post is that passion is passion, and it’s silly that I should try to replace an existing passion with my own. It’s not about me anyway…
Thank you for helping me work through my thoughts on this issue, and yes, the title got my attention :)
We don’t have to fully understand where each other is coming from, all we have to do is make art!
P.S. the notion that illustration is not art is silly, and anyone who believes that IS a snob.
james
I have a 17 year old son with Asperger’s Syndrome and he is absolutely besotted with anime. He has been drawing for a very short while, but the therapy he derives from this has saved me lots of worries, tears and therapy time with psychologists. He enters another world where he draws and he doesn’t stop until he is done. At the moment one big sketch a day. I need to find a place for him to go to study formally and it seems that this line of work will be what he eventually will be drawn into. He has been an avid Yu Gi Oh fan since he was about 4. He is now doing the Dragonballz tutorials on YouTube and the illustrated novels (Fairy Tail) have replaced all the other literature he used to consume. For me, anime has been a rescue, regardless of where it fits into the bigger artistic canvas. If it helps my child and makes him happy, then I’m happy.
I am 18 in university and I use a mix of manga/anime style with other things but the tutors/teachers never change, in high school it was no don’t draw like that you won’t get good marks, so I diddnt draw like that. Then in College I also got told even though it was a mix style by this point I got told not to draw like that becuase it dosnt show much creativity. In univerisity I got told I was using to much from my influences with the eyes being to big and I should draw a few pages in my A4 sketch book on eyes. I know how to draw eyes so I put them in here but the drawing diddn’t look as cute as I wanted it. I dont get it as im on an illustration course and we have to learn about graphic novels” but no room for that style. Very intresting post thak you :) reading it makes me not want to give up.
anamay is awesome
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